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Blue-eyed or blonde Ancient Egyptians

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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 185
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.57.240.22
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All:
In the following URL:

http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr.8.htm

Click on: "Chapter 8. History of the White Race"

In this article, the statues of King Hor (circa 1783-1633) and a noblewoman from the 4th Dyn. are both depicted with blue eyes.

The mummies of Hatshepsut and Hetep-heres (daughter of King Khufu), have blonde hair...as does Yuya, an Egyptian nobleman from 1400 BC and father of Tiy (wife of Amenhotep III)... Rameses II has red hair!

The well preserved mummy of Seti I (son of Ramses I) has NORDIC features. The mummy compares well with the relief of his face made in his lifetime at the Temple at Abydos. (It also looks similar to Yuya's.)

Most of the red hair that occurs all over the world today, is thought to be due to the conquerings and occupation of countries by Eric the Red...but he didn't come along until much later.


Does anyone know of a Nordic infusion into Egypt in ancient times?

Janine

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bernhard a. grundl
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Username: bernhard_grundl

Post Number: 56
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 193.27.50.74
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HELLO JANINE,
here more nordic informations for you:
http://christianparty.net/pharaohs.htm see the first two/three pages ! best regards: bernhard
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 186
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.57.240.22
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bernhard:
Thankyou kindly... Didn't realize there were so many of them! Still wondering where it originated? The ancient Greeks had about an even mixture of blondes and brunettes, according to one author who refuted the Nordic influence. Some of the Greeks dyed their hair blonde, but the hair continues to grow for a while in the deceased - therefore, I would think dyed hair would be apparent in an Egyptian mummy, if changed from dark to blonde.

Might be all shades of gray involved...normally, people who come from the higher, cooler latitudes are lighter skinned and lighter haired...(possibly a survival adaptation - the animals they hunted, or hunted them, couldn't see them as well.)

So how did they get into Egypt?... Kings, yet!

By the way...you are much faster than Google, which hasn't given me a decent answer yet.:-)
How DO you DO that?

Thankyou Bernhard...you're a jewel.

Janine

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andre dollinger
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Username: andi

Post Number: 110
Registered: 04-2002
Posted From: 212.116.174.71
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hair continues to grow for a while in the deceased

it doesn't, of course. once a body is dead, all its organs stop functioning, including hair follicles.
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 188
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.57.240.22
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Andre:
Yes, that surprised me, too...bodies that have been exhumed have been found to have eyelashes one inch long, and their hair to have grown. (It seems like their nails did too, but not sure.)

In one very early Egyptian burial, they found henna-dyed hair with short black roots.

Although it doesn't seem possible, could it be, that for a short period of time, the growth of hair continues without a blood supply?

Janine
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Sylvie Gingras
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Username: alva

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 65.92.185.161
Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Janine,

This doesn't prove anything, of course, but when I was in Egypt, I saw quite a few people with red hair...as for natural blonde, never.

But the real purpose of my post is to ask you about what you wrote earlier: the mummy of Hatchepsut had blonde hair. Am I living on another planet or ??? I was convinced that they never found her body. Or is it another person than Queen Hatchepsut you are talking about? Any info on this would be quite welcomed!

Tourelou,

Sylvie
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bernhard a. grundl
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Username: bernhard_grundl

Post Number: 58
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 193.27.50.73
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DEAR JANINE, i was very amused and touched by your warmhearted compliments. the topic of nordic people or nordic genetic material ( often dominant-recessive ) regarding old egyptian people is really very interesting ! next week i hope to have more time for you, and sylvie and the whole team on board ! have a good time & best regards: bernhard
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 189
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.228.111
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Silvie:
The quote was from page 3, (under R. photograph of Queen Hatshepsut, wife of Thutmosis II):

http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr8.htm

Click on Chapter 8: Egypt... (though sometimes it comes up immediately.)

Check with other people on the board, as to whether or not Hat's mummy has been found...some authors have been known to get their facts skewed.

Janine


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James M. Vance
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Username: jmvance

Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 4.62.127.141
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The so-called "growth" of hair, lashes and nails after death just does not happen.
When a person dies, and especially with mummified remains, the body dries out. In the process of drying the surviving tissue shrinks. This gives the impression that the hair is longer, the eyelashes have grown and the nails have grown longer.
It is my understanding that the mummy of Hatshepsut has never been found.
Although there has been documentation of light-colored hair on several mummies, as far as I know the color of eyes would be impossible to verify--the AE removed eyeballs during mummification. I also have heard reports that most of the red-headed mummies have gray hair originally, and it was stained red by the unguents used.
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 190
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.228.111
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thankyou James.
The one inch eyelashes was a story I heard many years ago, of (unmummified) modern bodies exhumed not too long after burial...and it may have been just that, a 'story'...which I have not heard since.

As for the very ancient early dynastic burial mentioned, she was not mummified. She was also in a forensic lab, which would be able to determine the original color of the hair by pulling some out by the roots, or the henna dye did not get close enough to the scalp. In other words, HER hair need not have grown either.

Since I have not heard the story since, I am afraid you are right about this.

However, if a mummy DID have dyed hair, it could be apparent in a forensics lab for the same reasons as the hair of the early dynastic burial.

Since hair grows approximately 1/2 inch per month, the evidence also could depend on the time of the last trip to the beauty parlor.

Although the use of Henna is established, I do not know that the AE's dyed their hair blonde, only that the Greeks did.

If I hear nothing more of eyelashes 1" long (and I don't expect to), I will chalk it up to something I heard or read from "Strange As It Seems".

Thanks again,

Janine

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Sylvie Gingras
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Username: alva

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 65.92.181.216
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Janine,

Thank you for your answer. I checked the link you gave us and the mommy identified as Hatchepsut is in fact the "Elder Lady", found in the royal cache of KV 35 (tomb of Amenophis II) in 1898 by Victor Loret and described as having "long, wavy brown hair" by anatomist G. Elliot Smith. She has not been identified but most think she might be Tiye. In a very interesting article in KMT (summer 2001), Susan E. James argues in favor of Nefertiti.

I think we should be cautious with the internet, the information it provides is often less than trustworty.

Tourelou!

Sylvie
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 192
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.228.111
Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Agree! Sylvie. In one article, it was stated that Queen Tiye was pure African. And true, some scultpures show her with dark skin.

Another article, states that Tiye was rosy cheeked, blonde and blue-eyed, as was her father. However, this isn't the first conflict of information I have read on the net.

Thankyou for the I.D. of the "elder lady".

Janine
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Marianne Luban
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Username: marianne_luban

Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2003
Posted From: 198.81.26.173
Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many Jews of today have blue eyes and were described as having them even in the Late Period of ancient Egypt. They are from the Mediterranean area, too. I recall one painting from dynastic times of a worker having blue eyes. So some Egypians may have had them, too.

However, King Seti I was not especially "Nordic"
looking at all. See my reconstruction of his face beginning at

http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/Round.html
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bernhard a. grundl
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Username: bernhard_grundl

Post Number: 531
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 193.27.50.73
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 06:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear MARIANNE, if you are interested in BLUE EYES (btw: a fine song too ! in ancient egypt, i can provide an excellent example dating back to 2600BCE: RAHOTEP and NOFRET. more: here we can see the very early application of the famous "magic eye" technique. i mentioned this article some month's ago, but it is worth to repeat it, and it contains some work of a certain M. Luban (you know her ? ): http://www.world-destiny.com/rahotepandnofret.htm there still exit some other objects in relation with this so called "nordic" influence. ( had been discussed here some time ago ) best regards: Bernie
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Marianne Luban
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Username: marianne_luban

Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2003
Posted From: 198.81.26.173
Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some Coptic women I have met are as light-skinned as I am. For some odd reason, they really are lighter than the men. But, again, I am from a Middle Eastern people, too. You can even have a look at me at

http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/enlargement.html
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Nicole B. Hansen
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Username: nicole

Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2001
Posted From: 217.29.140.5
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You cannot use skin-color in Egypt today as an indicator of ancient Egyptian skin-color or eye color. You will find in Egypt that Muslims and Christians alike can be very light-skinned (some are even more white than me and I am of entirely Northern European ancestry) and some are black, at least by American standards of skin color (interestingly, if you see the people from other African countries, there are a lot of them, in Egypt you will realize that most American blacks must be mixed with white because black Africans are really BLACK, unlike anything you see in America or even the modern Egyptians themselves). You will find a wide range of skin color, even among the same family, where cousins usually marry cousins. The red-haired Egyptians generally are I think a genetic trait. Red-haired Egyptians generally tend to have black-haired brothers and sisters. And there are some blonde haired Egyptians, particularly around Mansoura, due to mixing with the French army. There has always been admixture with foreigners in Egypt, from both the south and north.
Nicole B. Hansen
Ph.D. candidate, Egyptology, University of Chicago
Egyptologist/Editor, Theban Mapping Project
Cairo, Egypt
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Marianne Luban
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Username: marianne_luban

Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2003
Posted From: 198.81.26.173
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 03:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In case it isn't so obvious, my point was that I have black hair but my eyes as are blue as they come. If I, with my heritage, can turn out like this, why couldn't it happen to an ancient Egyptian? There weren't any blonds in my family that I know of. Both my parents had black hair.
My cardiologist is a Jew from Iran. His people had lived there for as long as anyone can recall.
He looks pretty much the same as I do in coloring.
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 829
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All:
The mixtures of hair and eye color may go back to great antiquity - dating from several Indo-European invasions, one of which, early on, was by the Sumerians who called themselves "the black haired People". They also apparently had some blue eyed dieties. Over the centuries, there were also invasions of Sumer and Akkad by the Celts (Gutians), bringing more adjustments to the gene pool. No telling how many others there were before these, or how far the influences spread.

In modern times, the combination of very black hair and violet-blue eyes often turns up in Ireland ~ and in ancient times, possibly in Rahotep.

Meanwhile,in Egypt, Ramesses II had red hair; Hatshepsut and Hetep-heres (daughter of Khufu) had blonde hair. Such traits often skip a generation or two. I have 3 children, none of whom look alike, yet all some some traits of their parents. One daughter inherited traits from her great-grandmother, that neither I nor my mother have.

To me, the inheritance of genetic traits seems to behave in the random manner of ping pong balls dropping out of a bingo tumbler...pure chance, or one is 'heavier'.

Not exactly a "scientific assessment...for a better one, Bonnie would know.

Janine



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Rick Baudé
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Username: rjb

Post Number: 175
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 204.210.9.245
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think way to much is made out of hair, eye, and skin color. For an example of how "meaningless" eye and hair color might be, check out the picture on page 53 of the November issue of Scientific American. The pix shows a series of virtually identical (From the DNA point of view) series of mice with different hair color. There is no known explanation for this. Mendelian genetics can't account for this difference.

However, Laborador retrievers are well known for coming in three colors, black, chocolate, and yellow. The reason for this is very well known, but complex, however it appears to follow mendelian genetics.
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 830
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rick: Mendelian law also doesn't apply to eye color. And some people even get one of each. (The Irish again. Go figure!) As for hair color, red seems to skip a generation or so. Think blonde might skip some generations, as well, being the only one on both sides of the line. One daughter is blonde. Oddly, she was born with black hair, which quickly fell out and became nearly white blond. (Maybe there was a Viking back in the family tree.) We should ask Bonnie about this. Bonnie?
Regards, Brunhilda
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Frederick Lundberg
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Username: fredl

Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2000
Posted From: 195.92.194.16
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 05:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting!!
I have (used to,hee:-)) Black hair & very prominent Blue eyes,prompting a lot of family comment in my youth.
The only close family comparison was my Jewish Great grandparents on my fathers side,(swedish) & nothing like my Mother,s French side in any description at all.
So,I vote for the melting pot theory but wonder if certain traits are stronger.
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J.D. Degreef
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Username: jd_degreef

Post Number: 962
Registered: 02-2000
Posted From: 80.236.140.202
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All,

Even though this isn't an Egyptological subject, here are two interesting pages on the matter :

http://www.athro.com/evo/gen/inherit1.html
http://www.fi.edu/tfi/units/life/forums/anatomy/eyes.html (especially the BRANNON postings).

JD
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 835
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

JD and Allan: Neat! JD. Very interesting reading. The interest in the dark violet blue eye-color of Rahotep began many years ago. A friend whose specialty is the connection of languages told me that such eye-color may have come from the Indo-European "black haired people" during their invasions. Evidently, there were several - beginning prior to 3000 BCE. We refer to them as the ancient Sumerians, but the Sumerians did not speak a Semetic language - nor did their language have roots that connected to any other. Some say, possibly ancient Dravidian in India. How this dark blue eye color turned up in Rahotep may never be solved. His statue is also one of the few that have the "following eye" (in a great post by Bernie, above), which is remarkable in itself.

Allan: In Brannon's postings >Online Mendelian inheritance in Man, >Search OMIM Morbid Map > Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man Morbit Map, -
there may be something of interest that may fit the conditions of Tutankhamum. I did not explore it all, since I do not understand many of the medical terms. (Also hope this isn't a wild goose chase.)

Fantastic post, JD.
Janine
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 836
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Allan: I am referring to JD's second post above...anatomy/eyes..."especially the Brannon postings". In a burst of eager beaverism, I forgot to mention it.
Janine
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Allan Ashby
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Username: alhotep

Post Number: 93
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 142.154.202.123
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting stuff, but eyes can have more than one colour. In high school, I shared a locker with a fellow who had two colours in one eye. Really. I think one eye was green and the other was green and brown, almost half and half. He pointed it out to me, but he wasn't exactly proud of it. I don't mind anyone's scepticism: if I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it either. I don't know if it was the result of some other condition (possibly melanin was blocked or ?), but it definitely was there.

Is it just me, or are these discussions of pigmentation of hair, skin, and eyes almost exclusively on American web sites? Meaning no offense, I do wonder if this perspective has more to do with modern American history than ancient Egyptian history.

aja

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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 839
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Allan: Hi Doll. Technically, "yes", but one does wonder how Rahotep ended up with the dark violet blue eyes...which started the research.

Perhaps the Egyptians were also fascinated by it, since they made such remarkable copies for the eyes of the statue. Nofret's eyes may have been a charcoal blue, color almost undefinable (which is also present today). One cannot help but wonder what genetic lines from other cultures contributed to the physical anomalies found in ancient Egypt. After some subsequent research, however, I'm afraid I am out of luck for finding a verifiable genetic trace. All of the contributing genes to eye color have not been identified. (One lady had blue eyes with ~ 12 brown dots around the iris. Clocks.)
That's all. No more about eyes.
Sincerely,
Janine
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Allan Ashby
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Username: alhotep

Post Number: 94
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 142.154.203.152
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Janine -
Sorry, I wasn't trying to squelch the conversation. I have to keep reminding myself how everything looks so much 'colder' in print.

The point I should have made is that when people talk about 'race' they nearly always mean 'skin colour.' The problem with this perspective is that the genetic range within these 'races' is much greater than any differences between them. These characteristics overlap to a large extent, so that individuals from different 'races' often have much more in common genetically than they do with other members of their 'race.'

A teaching assistant (who would have been old enough to have had the experience) once told me that, if a form ever asked what his race was, he had always entered the word 'human.' That was scientifically correct, but it wasn't always politically correct to say so.

I recall reading about Egyptian shock at finding some Libyans who had 'hair that looked like dead grass,' presumably blond. I don't recall if they mentioned their eyes or skin.

The importance of hair colour might also figure in the origins of the Horus-Seth myth, if we assume that it had some historicial basis. Seth was supposed to have had red hair, and Ramses II's reign saw a subtle 'rehabilitation' of Seth worship, since Ramses was a 'carrot top,' too.

By the way, has anyone determined if the hair on Ramses II's mummy is dyed red or his natural colour? ('Did he or didn't he? Only his embalmers knew for sure.') But seriously, the fact that someone with red hair could have become pharaoh -- especially given its mythological connotations --argues for the difference in the ancient Egyptian definition of 'us' versus 'them.'

In any event, as you say, it's difficult to link these characteristics. The first Europeans to 'discover' Australia must have been puzzled to find that aborigines with blond hair were far from uncommon.
aja
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 843
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, Allan - I didn't take it as an intended squelch. Just my own guilt trip surfacing because I felt I was getting too far off topic. Like when a house cleaner broke Mother's china pitcher... Unasked, she blurted out, "I didn't pour no boilin' tea in that pitcher!"

How did Seth, originally a form of storm god, evolve to have red hair? (Or ANY hair.) Could this have been promoted by Ramesses, himself? Evidently Ramesses' father was quite proud of his little boy, and took him nearly everywhere with him as a child. (So the net reports). I wonder if the red hair had anything to do with his pride? And where did the it come from? Considered a direct gift from the gods? Curious ...tho I doubt if these questions will ever get answered.

Commented on "didn't he or didn't he?" (LOL) on the wrong string.
Janine
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 844
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Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, Allan - I didn't take it as an intended squelch. Just my own guilt trip surfacing because I felt I was getting too far off topic. Like when a house cleaner broke Mother's china pitcher... Unasked, she blurted out, "I didn't pour no boilin' tea in that pitcher!"

How did Seth, originally a form of storm god, evolve to have red hair? (Or ANY hair.) Could this have been promoted by Ramesses, himself? Evidently Ramesses' father was quite proud of his little boy, and took him nearly everywhere with him as a child. (So the net reports). I wonder if the red hair had anything to do with his pride? And where did the it come from? Considered a direct gift from the gods? Curious ...tho I doubt if these questions will ever get answered.

Commented on "didn't he or didn't he?" (LOL) on the wrong string.
Janine
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Janine Williams
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Username: janine

Post Number: 845
Registered: 09-2002
Posted From: 66.26.67.114
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oo-oops! Posted twice. Sorry.
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J.D. Degreef
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Username: jd_degreef

Post Number: 970
Registered: 02-2000
Posted From: 213.177.158.149
Posted on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Allan & Janine,

The color red was associated with Seth because he was the god of the Red Land, the deserts (as opposed to the Black Land, the fertile Nile valley).

The family of Rameses II originated in the E Delta. This was an area which had always been under a strong Asiatic influence. Maybe this is why a cult of Seth / Baal persisted there from at least the IId Dynasty : the city of Sethroe is mentioned in inscriptions of the Sethan king Peribsen.
This explains that the oldest son of the vizier Pa-Ramessu (later Rameses I) was called Sethy, "the Sethan one", "he of Seth", as his grandfather had been.
Rameses I's successor Sethy I established his summer residence close to the forgotten Hyksos capital Avaris, itself a Sethan cult center. Under Rameses II this would become the official Residence, Per-Rameses / Pi-Rameses (r weakening into i). With an important Seth temple in the SW part of the city.

It isn't that these kings didn't realize that a name such as Sethy could cause problems. In the Osiris temple at Abydos or in his tomb, Seth in Sethy's name is replaced by Osiris or the Isis knot tjt !

JD
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Sam Woods
New member
Username: inquestof

Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2009
Posted From: 72.251.38.181
Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course by the bodies and paintings of Egypt they were a black race.
Descendants of the Egyptians could be white but they could not exclude whites, like the European Jews
http://encyclopediaegypt.com/israel/eg-blond.htm

I suppose the best reason European Jews are white can be found in tracking their family trees to see who their relatives are

http://encyclopediaegypt.com/israel/f3000.htm
The book and author on the Date Line NBC program on 'Jews in Hitler's Nazi Army' .
http://encyclopediaegypt.com/israel/f3000b.htm

None of us are exclusive descendant of any particular ancestor, but we are a composite of all ancestors we ever hand
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Andrew Bayuk
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 783
Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 74.237.99.142


Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judging purely by ancient Egyptian's own art the Egyptian race was not pure black if you mean black African. The Egyptians have many scenes depicting different ethnicities, often showing "foreigners" with various distinguishing features. You can see an example here:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/enemies.htm
Scroll down to the picture labeled "Foreigners from Ramesses III Temple at Medinet Habu"

This is a typical depiction of the different way the the ancient Egyptian saw the surrounding peoples. Clearly they depicted themselves differently than say Nubians.

Regards,
Andrew
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Sam Woods
New member
Username: inquestof

Post Number: 19
Registered: 08-2009
Posted From: 63.23.18.80
Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scroll down to the picture labeled "Foreigners from Ramesses III Temple at Medinet Habu"
///
The Egyptians also have images of people with green and blue faces, not to mention people with the heads of dogs or birds.
If you went into any tomb and captured all images, and put them together... 99.99% of them would be of a black race.

Other than art, go to google and look up the DNAPrint test, It is now tested and used by the FBI. It can determine the originals of people's ancestors and is used in criminal cases.

Look at the cities of Vietnam today.. a big mix of white children... after about 10 years of European soldiers being in their country.
Look at their population of their villages in the 1930s to 1940s.. not one white person

If you want to know what an original people were.. you must do dna testing on the population that existed there before outsiders polluted their gene pool, or you must find isolated populations that have been seperated from outsiders
Look at the swamp land Iraqis who lived there for centuries.. not a white face in the whole bunch

Look at native Americans that live in the general population, a mixed bag of races... but go to their reservations.. far from the tourist traps and know no white native Americans ever existed.
Another example is looking at the pictures of the Native American schools in the late 1800-early 1900s.. a sea of black faces

The white race existed only in Europe before their gene pool polluted the world... do you think there were whites in Austrilia or South Africa... the world population today is not what it was in the beginning.

I will show you more egyptians painted with blue faces, green faces, dog heads then you can find with white faces.
In random sampling, do not take 1 particular example..
In the same tomb you see people of different races, look on the walls at all the people depicticted, how many of them are of the black race.
The middle east is a composite of Asians (like natives of India) and Negroes (Africian) different races, but non whites.

If you want to see the unpolluted descendants of the ancient Egyptians, move to isolated villages a hundred miles from the cities and see how many whites you see.

I am not sure how early, but the Egyptians encountered sea people and people from Greece very early on. I think the Medeterrian Sea is the dividing line between whites.. kind of ify...

Go to the back villages of India... see how many white people you see... in the cities where Europeans have spread their seed, of course.. look in the isolated lands to see the unpolluted descendants.

One thing I did notice, maybe it is my imagination but when I see a lot of couples, they have the males lighter than the females.?

Thanks
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Sam Woods
New member
Username: inquestof

Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2009
Posted From: 63.23.18.80
Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Descendants of Native Americans... difference in being isolated from Europeans and living amoung them
http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/NativeAmericans#

European Jews compared to Lemba who they claim share the same ancestors
http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/Lemba#

When races mix http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/RaceMixing#

Iraqis vs Africians and Europeans (Ur/ancient Iraq, nativity of Abraham)
http://picasaweb.google.com/arabisraelites/IraqChaldeans#

South Asians ... middle east race, compared to white Europeans and Africans
http://picasaweb.google.com/EncyclopediaEgypt/Swasian

Remember to look at the very isolated populations, which would indicate the least
polluted collection.

Pollution... just like if you spilled a cup of coffie on the floor, near the cup the largest puddles, the further away... the smaller the contamination. If you want to know what an ancient people and you can find isolated areas of their descendants, look there.

The FBI uses hair, skin thickness, bone thickness, bone shape.. but the DNAPrint
test is the latest

Do a search for this in quotes
DNAPrint Tony frudakis

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