|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 09:42 am: ||
Not knowing masses about AE and the GP can someone answer one or all of the following?
1/ People say that the GP was built using ramps, if this is the case then according to logic and common sense the blocks should get smnaller as the GP rises, courses 1-18 agree with this but with course 19 the size increases... What's going on there then?
2/ Is it still considered to be true that it took around 20 years and around 100,000 people to build the GP? ~2.3 million blocks at 10 hours per day, 365 days a year = 31 Blocks an Hour = ~ 1 Block every 2 minutes (Quarry, Drag & Place) Doesn't anyone else find this hard to believe?
3/ I know nothing about ramps but a ramp with 1:10 gradient would need to be around 4800 feet long and about 3 times as massive as the GP. (GP Volume ~ 2.6 Million Cubic Meters - Ramp Volume ~ 8 Million Cubic Meters) doesn't this bugger up the Ramp theory a little? Never mind all the other problems with ramps and dragging massive blocks.
4/ Hasn't it been confirmed by modern day engineers that these ramps would have colapsed under their own weight if made of the supposed rubble and sand etc? they would have to be made of something atleast as strong as the Limestone Ashbars which the GP is made of.
5/ 'Winding' ramps around the GP would have been useless due to them disinegrating through use & the impossible corners and the fact that most of the GP would have been cloaked and how could the precision have been achived with it hidden....See Collosus of Rhodes
6/ Why is it believed that the GP & others are toombs? when no body has ever been found, no writing within the GP (except the fake name) and a stone box which apparently automatically means a sarcofagus (Spell)
If i didn't know what a coffin was and i walked into a blank room with one in i would not assume that it was used for the dead even if it was inside a church. (but that might just be me)
7/ Air Shafts - Why (if they are toombs) Why do the dead need air shafts..if they are for the soul to travel through why were they sealed? why does a god need a hole? why were they aligned to stars even through the were sealed??????
I am not stating facts here and as i said i would just like some answers from some of you in the know about these things which really bug the **** out of me
J.D. Degreef (22.214.171.124)
|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:42 pm: ||
If you care to do a Keyword Search using the word "ramp", you'll find most of the answers you're looking for. We can then try and clarify the remaining points.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:51 pm: ||
Oh, for the Name of Re! Why do people always observe the civilisation and the belifs of the ancient Egyptians using the logic of the 21st century westernmen?
You will find many of your anwsers if you just look under all the disscusion that sprouted on this forum in all of the "ramp theories folder". Here are my brief anwsers to your questions:
1) The size of the blocks, as the pyramid raises, does get smaller. I do not know about the difference betwen level 18-19 (which is very low, btw), but the blocks at the top are significantly smaller than, for instance, huge granite ceilings of the king's or queens chamber. An avarage block at the top of the pyramid is smaller than an avarage block at the bottom of it.
2) What on earth is so hard to belive here? There are some doubts was the pyramid builded for 20 or 40 or, perhaps (who knows, Herodotus might be right) 60 years, and the sheer work force was probably around 1/5 of the number you mention, but what is so unbelivable here? It is all about good organisation of the work. Besides, IMHO, the blocks weren't quarried at the same time they were dragged up the ramps and placed onto the pyramid. During the most of the years, stonemasons and quarrymean worked in the quarries, diging hundreds and hundreds of blokcs, all of which were labaled, and then, during the annual Nile flooding, when most of the workforce (peasants) were brought to the construction site, they already had a decent number of stone blocks prepared and just waiting for them to sledge them up the pyramid! At least I belive it happened that way.
3) Read our ramp disscusion carefuly; ramps existed, they were huge, their volume was not far from the volume of the pyramid itself, but again, what about it? If people are willing to bother themselves by building a huge, solid mountain out of the stone, its function being completly abstract, then why would they consider such a huge ramps to be a waste of material? It was certainly the best technology they possesed in their own time.
4) Ramps were much more stabler than you think. I doubted the stability of these ramps, but was proven otherwise. Ramps had all of the properties of a solid stone wall (being that they were mostly made out of the stone chips), very stable, yet not so hard to dismantle and 'chop to pieces' after the pyramid was finished.
5) Spiral ramps were, IMHO, used on higher levels of pyramid. They would not have been useless because they were more stable than you think, they would pass over the edges of the pyramid, but that would have been no problem for monitoring the angle of the sides, again, read the Ramp theories disscusion.
6) THAT NAME WAS NOT FAKED! Oh, the nerve of those fringies! When I first read the theory about the 'faking' of the name, I almost fall of my chair laughing. Besides, if I remember correctly, there are 3 names, and a bunch of other inscritpions whose function was apperently completly bureocratical (labeling the blocks). Was all that faked? By whom? Why? There are no magical or sacral writtings inside the GP because Pyramid Texts were not developd then yet. Simple as that! And remains of bodies were found in other pyramids, thus clearly identifying them as tombs, so why would a GP be any different? Besides, the AEs themselves thought of the pyramid as tomb.
7) And why would a tomb not have air shafts? Why would a king not need a hole? Besides, whose to say that they were air shafts? Who can say what their true function was? These are shafts which lead from the burial chamber through the core of the pyramid, and what their function was, I have no idea. Besides, how do you know they were sealed? AFAIK, these air shafts lead to the current surface of the pyramid, who knows if they did or did not opened on the original surface of the pyramid. My point is, we should not be hasty to make conclusion about things we do not know, using the logic we have and by which we think today; who can say if the AEs possesed the same logic; IMHO, they didn't, and this is something (some) people like to forget or disregard.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 02:23 pm: ||
"There are no magical or sacral writtings inside the GP because Pyramid Texts were not developed then yet."
Just out of curiosity, is there any writing in pyramids dated earlier than the GP? I've checked a little bit and can't seem to find any.
Erik Calero (126.96.36.199)
|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 03:11 pm: ||
Yes, there are writings inside an older pyramid than Khufu's GP.
At Zoser's Step Pyramid (III dynasty) there are several decorative elements as blue tiled walls and also false doors and stelaes showing the king performing the ceremonial hed-seb run, and of course hieroglyphs !!
Although there are not any pyramid texts before Pharao Unas (Final king of the V dynasty), surely the religious ceremonies and magical spells described in the Pyramid texts were current in active at least at the final of the III dynasty or at the begining of the IV dynasty.
This can be inferred by the similarity between the internal layout of the pyramids of IV and V dynasties.
Brent Benjamin (188.8.131.52)
|Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:02 pm: ||
Richc: as J.D. suggested, do a keyword search. All of your queries have been answered - indeed, many recently. Within the last month, I, myself, posted on the tomb query (including noting body parts found inside pyramids).
|Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 07:44 am: ||
Thanks for narrowing my research effort. I will take a look at them.
|Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 08:37 pm: ||
yeah, i am having trouble with a question about the smallest pyramids name that is in Egypt. Do you know the answer or should i find it someweres else?
|Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 01:48 am: ||
There are dozens of small pyramids in Egypt. Most are connected with tombs and if the name of the tomb owner is known that name or the modern tomb number is the reference used for the pyramid.
J.D. Degreef (184.108.40.206)
|Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 04:04 am: ||
The smallest pyramid I know is the satellite pyramid of queen Inenek / Inti, a wife of Pepy I (6th dynasty). Said pyramid lies in Saqqara, next to the queen's real pyramid. It doesn't have a specific name (AFAIK only the pyramids of kings had names).
I can provide pics if you need them.
|Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 11:26 am: ||
You do not consider the small pyramids in the cemeteries of the workmen at Giza, at the New Kingdom tombs at Saqqara and at Deir El Medina to be pyramids?
J.D. Degreef (220.127.116.11)
|Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 12:52 pm: ||
The one I mentioned seems smaller than the New Kingdom tombs, but I have never seen the overseers' pyramids at Giza nor do I remember having read their measurements. Do you know their dimensions ?
|Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 05:53 pm: ||
An estimate from photograph with people in the scene indicates about 6 feet high.
J.D. Degreef (18.104.22.168)
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 12:34 am: ||
Then it is indeed smaller than the 6th dyn. queens' satellites (base = about 4 m from measuring on a plan ?).
Larry Pahl (22.214.171.124)
|Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 07:45 am: ||
I think there is more wisdom in what richc has written about ramps than in the "answers" here.